Sage Solutions
Advice and insight about personal growth, personal development, and becoming your best self.
Sage Solutions
Curiosity Conversation #1: Authenticity
Ever caught yourself wondering if you were being "fake" in a social situation? Or perhaps you've judged someone else for seeming inauthentic? This fascinating conversation between David, Hannah, and Anna Sage explores the gray area between necessary social adaptation and problematic inauthenticity.
The trio introduces a new format called "Curiosity Conversations" - unstructured discussions that allow personal development topics to flow naturally and intersect in surprising ways. What unfolds is a thoughtful examination of how we present ourselves in different contexts and what that means about our authentic selves.
As they navigate this complex topic, each host brings unique insights. Anna questions how we know when we're crossing the line into "fake" territory, while Hannah shares her experience as someone who sometimes needs to "turn on" her social side despite being naturally more introverted. David challenges the group to consider whether judging others' authenticity is even helpful, noting "we're so caught up in the stories that we're telling ourselves about the situation that's based on our perspective, when most of the actual intent is based on the stories that they're telling themselves that we can't hear."
The conversation takes fascinating turns as they discuss physiological responses to inauthenticity, whether small talk can ever feel genuine, and the complex relationship between social intelligence and authenticity. Each host reveals their own method for determining when they're being true to themselves - with surprising differences between them.
Perhaps most compelling is their exploration of how we define our core selves beyond just our consciousness. Hannah identifies herself as fundamentally "loving," while Anna sees herself as "deep," revealing how our self-concept directly shapes our experience of authenticity in daily interactions.
Whether you're someone who craves deep connection or struggles with surface-level conversations, this episode offers valuable perspective on navigating social situations while honoring your true self. Give it a listen and join the curiosity conversation - you might discover something surprising about your own authentic nature.
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Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk about all things personal growth, personal development and becoming your best self. My name is David Sage and I am a self-worth and confidence coach with Sage Coaching Solutions. In today's episode, we're doing something a little different. It's a concept I've been playing around with for a while, but this will be the first time that we're actually implementing it.
Speaker 1:I would say the closest thing that we've done to this was our episode on anxiety A little bit more of a free flow conversation about personal development topics between three people. But unlike our episode on anxiety, the goal of these conversations is not to thoroughly cover one topic, but to let the conversation go where it's going to go in a much more realistic and unregimented way. This allows us to talk about many different personal development topics and to show how they all blend together in different conversations and in real-world situations. It also brings in a variety of different perspectives and allows for us to cover things that we probably wouldn't normally on this podcast. Today I have both of my reoccurring co-hosts my sister Anna Sage and my wife Hannah Sage.
Speaker 2:Sup.
Speaker 3:Hey, hey.
Speaker 1:We're going to be calling this format Curiosity Conversations, because the whole point is to have a conversation about personal development topics. Let it be what it's going to be and approach everything with curiosity.
Speaker 3:It's as though you're listening in to David Hannah and I just having a normal conversation, like we normally would, without having to have a bunch of preparation and research done in advance.
Speaker 2:However, we're probably on better behavior for this one.
Speaker 1:Than normally. Yeah, that's probably true, but it's also going to have a definite focus on personal development topics to keep it relevant to this podcast. The other goal of this new format, which we're going to be cycling in in addition to what we've already been doing cycling in in addition to what we've already been doing is to model how to have productive conversations around personal development topics, and the number one way that we do that is by approaching them with a curiosity mindset. By approaching with curiosity, we open ourselves up to learn so much more and let the conversation flow in the most productive ways that it can, so that you can have these types of conversations with the people in your life. But before we get into it, our goal with this podcast is to share free, helpful tools with you and anyone you know who is looking to improve their life. So take action, Subscribe and share this podcast with them.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I can put this into the most concise words, but something I've been thinking a lot about lately is how, in different social situations, we act differently. Some of that is normal and then in other situations, you look at someone doing that and think, gosh, they're so inauthentic or they're being so fake authentic or they're being so fake. So I've been thinking a lot about what the gray area is in what's the normal amount of shifting and changing how you act and behave and respond in a social situation, versus what makes it have a negative connotation of being fake or inauthentic? Hi there, lufie.
Speaker 2:Connotation of being fake or inauthentic oh, hi there, luffy, our cat just jumped on anna's back and wanted to be part of the podcast, I guess he thought he could fit on the back of the chair, but he's a little too chunky but, anna, I get what you're saying because I feel like everyone has met different people who at times you kind of have a moment of feeling like maybe they are coming across as quote unquote fake, but then once you get to know them you actually realize that sometimes that just is their personality, when to kind of turn on some of the like charisma and maybe not as deep side, and when to let it get deeper kind of thing. And I think it depends a lot of times on level of comfortability, what type of event it is, who's all there. I think it just depends.
Speaker 1:I think it just depends. Yeah, I think that this is a complicated topic because there's so many factors in play, especially if you are in a negative state or like a foul mood. But they understand that if they were just going to be authentic with it, they'd be drawing everyone else down. So they're putting on a little bit of a facade in an attempt to, you know, spare others from that. I think there are times where people are being fake because they're trying to get something. You know it's complicated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I fully understand how nuanced and complicated it is. I think what I've been trying to sort out for myself in my own mind is when is inauthenticity a negative thing? If we're talking black and white, when is it more clearly on the black end of like, yeah, this isn't okay, and when is it actually a good thing to be a little bit inauthentic? You know, kind of thinking about those two extremes.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of different relationships that we're in. Some of them are a little bit more shallow and don't necessarily need to go into a deeper place, especially coming from someone who's a little bit more. I'm extroverted, but I'm naturally more of an introvert, so sometimes I'm social, yes, but sometimes I do need to turn it on. And that does probably come across as a little inauthentic, because if I'm at a big party kind of thing, I don't naturally usually want to be there.
Speaker 3:So I kind of have to like hype myself up, get about, and I've seen you kind of shift a little bit and be inauthentic in moments, but it's never left an impact on me of like, uh, or like you know how do I, how do I say that like it's. You've never been inauthentic in a way that seems malicious or seems, um, like it's gonna, it's hiding something bad. You know what I mean. It's like a positive thing. It's just being extra positive or polite or kind or you know, right.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that way, though? Because you know me personally and you know that I go to a deeper level? You know what I'm saying? I think sometimes, if you don't know someone and you've never seen that deeper side of them you can jump to, oh, they're always like this, they're always light, and I think one of the big things here is intent.
Speaker 1:I think the intent behind whether somebody is being true to themselves, authentic, is a big part of it, and I think when you're reading that, the intent is not malicious when the intent is to help themselves get through a state or to make the whole social exchange go better. I think the biggest thing here is trying to understand people's intent.
Speaker 2:I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by malicious. Is there like an example that?
Speaker 3:maybe you could give Right. That's what I was just thinking of. I think the most common thing that comes to mind is when, let's say, someone really doesn't like someone else, right, like truly, how they feel they don't like them at all but they have to be in certain social contexts with that person. They can't avoid them. Okay, so then, although they put on almost a facade of being positive and friendly, asking how they're doing all this kind of you know polite, you can sort of tell that like, ultimately, they don't genuinely care. I mean, this is pretty extreme, but there are those circumstances, right, where you have to be in contact with somebody that you really don't like, be it family, be it a coworker. I really read into itty bitty micro nuances of people and I think I feel it in my gut when I feel like I don't think this person actually is curious about me or likes me or genuinely wants to know.
Speaker 2:Let me ask you this, though Are those people that you really care, if they care about your life? You know what I mean. Like I know it's hard to. It's a bitter pill to swallow of someone that maybe doesn't care for me or doesn't want to get to know me, but the worst that comes of that is that they don't get to know you.
Speaker 3:That's true. I think that if it's you know, just a coworker that you don't really have to work with that much, or an acquaintance, you know that's easy to just be like eh, that's fine, I don't need to know you, you don't need to be in my life. But sometimes like what if it was someone in your family?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:That's where it gets tricky right.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. I feel like you hear this a lot of times with like in-laws, where it's like someone you are pushed into a relationship with yeah, stereotypically. Yeah, but it wasn't necessarily because you chose that relationship. It's because someone you love chose that relationship, right, which?
Speaker 3:makes sense, which, to be clear. I just want to make it very clear out here that, like this is not me speaking about somebody in my life, I'm just coming up with examples of when I think this would make the most sense.
Speaker 2:Right, we're just stereotyping.
Speaker 1:Well, it's for the sake of example. Let me start here. I think malevolent is too strong of a word, and I think Malicious, maleficent.
Speaker 3:Malelephant, I did. I said malicious, okay, both of them are too strong.
Speaker 1:I think it's more just like do they have a good intent or a bad intent?
Speaker 3:and isn't that what malicious is, malintent? True?
Speaker 1:but it has a strength of connotation to it. Right, you can be like oh, that was mildly negative versus like I'm going to kill you. Those are both bad.
Speaker 3:I mean, I feel like that's really extreme. When I think of malicious, I guess in the context I was using it, it's like I really don't like that person and I can't stand them.
Speaker 1:Malicious is often used for things like I hope they get fired, Like malicious intent can be pretty strong. That's why I'm saying like I feel like it is a little too strong of a word for that, Okay.
Speaker 1:So I guess I'm just saying why don't we keep it a little more neutral in the overall positive intent and negative intent? And the context matters a lot. I think the closeness of that relationship, as you were bringing up, makes a big difference. But this is a very shades of gray issue which is good for figuring things out, but it's a hard one to figure out because the lines are so blurry and it changes so much based on each individual instance of it. The same person acting fake with somebody that they don't necessarily like to look good in front of other people is one intent, but to try and keep peace for the sake of not causing a problem is another. Being way over the top with it is one thing, and just being lightly polite, just enough to get by, is another.
Speaker 2:There's also like mood swings. That can be a little challenging when you feel like you're in one place with someone and then you have an interaction with them and you kind of feel that superficial energy. They could just be having a really shitty day.
Speaker 3:Agreed. I typically like to believe that people are good and people have good intentions. Hurt people are the think where people you know might be being inauthentic because they're well. Maybe their intent isn't to get dirt on someone or to talk about them later or like you know, but maybe I don't know it happens.
Speaker 1:It could be. It's so case by case, though. I feel like the most common way that you see people being fake in that type of a scenario is that they are just trying to look so good and gracious, despite you knowing that that's not their intent. It's like they want to come off that way. It's not so much about whether you think it. They just want other people to think that they care.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, though. Like there are certain circumstances where I feel really uncomfortable though, because I value authenticity in people and I'm somebody who is so vulnerable and open and willing to have deep conversations that when I'm talking to somebody and it seems like they don't, they may not actually care about what they're asking me. They're just trying to be polite. I don't know how to interact like that. Like I'm like oh well, if you're asking me that I'm going to go in depth, you know I don't. Maybe that's more. Something I need to work on is meeting people where they're at and having a little bit of a lighter approach.
Speaker 2:I found that I personally don't give people as much grace as I probably should when it comes to this specifically, like where I assume negative intent a lot of times, because I tend to be a little bit more of a pessimistic thinker when it comes to other people, unfortunately. So I feel like there are times when I've been proven wrong, which is like my favorite is when I assume someone is fake. Someone doesn't actually care. I see them turn it on and then I find out that that's just who they are and not fake. But they're actually sweet and happy and like content and they wear their heart on their sleeve. But because I'm so guarded, it like comes across as so strange to me. I'm like whoa, how are you so friendly and happy and like right in everyone's face right away? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think it's very easy for us to think that we're better judges of people's intentions on social situations than we actually are.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we're so caught up in the stories that we're telling ourselves about the situation that's based on our perspective, when most of the actual intent is based on the stories that they're telling themselves that we can't hear.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, that hit home for me. I bet that a lot of times it's coming from my own insecurity, or maybe past interactions with a person and my own assumptions and fears. As I'm reading, you know the social cues, yeah, and it's not really about them.
Speaker 1:And while I think it's an interesting topic for us to be discussing, when it comes down to it in the moment I don't know if it's really our place to be the judge of that, because at the end of the day, since we can't be certain, we're really just assuming their intent, we're making an educated guess, and then, when we get into the functionality of it, what is the alternative? Let's say they are being inauthentic and they don't really like you. Would you prefer that they just outwardly stated that they don't like you and caused more of a scene and made it extra awkward? Wouldn't you feel like they were being super rude and mean?
Speaker 1:I don't know that the alternative is really any better than them just being inauthentic. I think if somebody doesn't like you, it's not going to feel good either way, but it's more socially acceptable for them to be fake about it. I don't think. I'd rather have somebody just be straight up mean to me, and I guess the third alternative is that they're so good at being inauthentic that you don't even realize they don't like you. I don't know if I'd prefer that one either, because then it's just about not wanting to know that they don't like you, which would mean that it's only okay if they're super skilled at being inauthentic, and I don't think that's what we're looking for either. There's definitely value in having social intelligence and being able to read other people and social situations well, but at the end of the day, I don't have control over what they think of me, so I'm just going to focus on my locus of control and let them. But what I do have control over is my own authenticity.
Speaker 2:That's a really good thought, because that makes total sense. I do have a question, though. At what point, if it's a relationship that truly matters, that you know you're going to have for a very long time, at what point do you have a conversation about it with that person?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Or do you just never? And then, 15 years down the line, you still are harboring these feelings of they don't like me.
Speaker 3:I feel like at some point it needs to be addressed. Have that conversation. Or is it more appropriate to do some intrinsic thinking and work on yourself and shift your own thinking instead?
Speaker 1:I definitely think that if somebody is a big part of your life, having a conversation like real conversations about some of these things and figuring some of these things out is definitely going to have to happen and maybe that results in boundaries, maybe things get figured out. Whatever that's going to be, having a constructive conversation with somebody that's going to be a big part of your life can be a helpful thing. Now they might not be in a place for it, but I am more saying that once you've taken those steps, you have a lot more control over really monitoring whether you are being authentic and having a wider view of your authentic you. I think if we turn it around and look at, like, what is being authentic right, we might think that somebody who is more vulnerable is more authentic. But I tend to not even love the phrasing of authentic self, because I am authentically me differently in different situations.
Speaker 1:Different parts of my personality come out with different people, naturally because of mirroring, because of the fact that I will meet them where they're at, or a certain part of my personality is the part of my personality that that person shares. Let's say, I'm having a conversation with a more analytical person. I'm often having a more analytical conversation. Am I being inauthentic by not showing all those other parts of myself? Am I just trying to hide all of that, or am I naturally just having that piece of me become more elevated in that situation? I think a lot of people stereotype themselves to be one thing and then they think that if they're not being that stereotypical version of themselves in all settings, they're not being their authentic self, when we're much more multifaceted than that.
Speaker 3:This may be a good place to say if this is ringing true for you as the listener. We do have several podcasts out already that deeper into who you are authentically and what makes you who you are. Is it you know your feelings? Is it your physical body? What actually is you? And then even further back back in December of 2024, our 21st episode was about how to win family and deal with difficult people, and I think that could really relate into.
Speaker 3:If you're in circumstances where you do want to try to have a difficult conversation with somebody, maybe who you've been feeling is inauthentic with you. That could be a really useful resource for how to approach that kind of conversation. And what do you do when somebody isn't in a place where they're doing the work on themselves to be able to hear that? Okay, but before I get us way too off track, I've been talking a lot about how it feels to experience someone else potentially being inauthentic, but I want to circle back to what David was saying earlier about when I am being inauthentic, right, like, what physiological response does my body give me? That's telling me I may be being inauthentic to who I really am and what I really think and believe? Like what do you experience? What makes you feel like, oh, I'm not being real right now.
Speaker 2:The biggest tell for me is when I leave that conversation not fulfilled and I have a moment of thinking what coulda, shoulda, woulda been and feeling like there was more I could have brought to the table. There's a lot of conversations, unfortunately, that I feel that moment when I leave that conversation of, oh, I should have asked them how this was going, oh, I should have told them about this. They could definitely relate to that and probably give me some advice when I feel like I missed out and it was of my own accord, is when I realized maybe I was probably being inauthentic in that moment.
Speaker 3:Being harsh on yourself of like oh, I should have done this. Is that truly an indicator of I'm being inauthentic right now? Or is that judging yourself and being critical of yourself?
Speaker 2:I think it's pretty easy for me to tell the difference, because I am so harsh on myself I've talked about it in the past where a lot of times my self-talk is like bashing. So I'd be walking away from that and be like, oh, you're so stupid, oh you're people don't like you. It would be a lot meaner if it was being the like self-talk kind of thing. So that's where I feel like, oh, there's more I could have brought to that and that's when I feel like I'm not being authentic.
Speaker 3:Interesting. So there's a different feeling in your body or a different kind of thought that you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more of like a gut response. Okay, more of a disappointed response, ooh, as opposed to a critical response.
Speaker 3:Interesting.
Speaker 1:I find this really fascinating. I don't think I have conceptualized it this way before. Thinking about the feeling that you have about the interaction afterwards or a physiological response during is a unique way of viewing it, at least to me. Does that mean that every conversation that you feel like didn't go as well as it should have or could have is inauthentic? Because I feel like sometimes things just don't go as well as they could have. But does that really mean that you were inauthentic?
Speaker 2:No, because I don't think it has anything to do with feeling like that could have gone better. It's more of oh, I know that they would have had some good insight if I would have shared this problem with them. Oh, it's something that I know they would have been compassionate to me in this situation where they probably could have helped me and given me some insight, and that's when I feel like maybe I could have shared a little bit more.
Speaker 3:So it's more like woulda, coulda, shoulda, in response to a lack of you sharing something personal or being open or authentic.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, especially because I tend to be a little more guarded. Do you have to have thought of sharing that ahead of time? Like what if it occurs to you after the fact?
Speaker 2:Do you then feel like you were being inauthentic? No, it's usually like when I feel tongue-tied and stuck where, I don't state it. A lot of times it's something that comes up in the moment for me but I'm like, oh, I don't want to trouble them or oh, I don't really want to go into that fully, like it's me stopping myself. Okay, and only I can be blamed, you know, for that kind of moment, because they probably would have been willing to go down that deeper hole with me. But I kept it lighter.
Speaker 3:Which is so interesting to me, because I'm sitting here reflecting trying to figure out like wait a minute, I'm the one that asked this question, but what are my responses? How do I even know? I don't really know how I would tell I'm being inauthentic, but I do know how I would tell when I'm being authentic. I know the inverse.
Speaker 1:Okay authentic.
Speaker 3:I know the inverse. Okay, I feel authentic to myself in my interactions. When my body feels at peace and feels calm, I don't feel very anxious and I feel like I don't really care about what the reaction may be, because I know that it's true to who I am and I am very secure in who I am. So then, it's almost the opposite of Hannah, I guess. Okay, I did figure it out while processing and verbalizing when I'm being inauthentic, I'm caring too much about how I'm being perceived by the other person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker 3:When I'm being authentic, I'm not caring about how they're perceiving me Like. Yeah, of course I would like to be liked, but if I'm saying something that I know is true to what I believe, what I think, who I am, and I see somebody have a negative response and I am at peace with. See somebody have a negative response and I am at peace with that, that's how I know I'm being authentic.
Speaker 2:Right, you don't feel like you need to band-aid that conversation and go back and say, oh, I didn't mean it, or anything.
Speaker 3:Right, and that's not to say I'm not uncomfortable or disappointed when somebody responds in a way that's like, oh, they didn't like what I had to say, but it doesn't make me doubt myself. I'm still at peace with, like, you know what, that's who I am, though.
Speaker 1:So so I think that I think about this a lot different than either of you. I think there is something to be said about the feeling that you have for it. I also think that the point about not worrying about what others are going to think makes a lot of sense, and I will say that as I'm thinking about it. Both of those resonate with me. But where I struggle with it is that what I think most people would say is their authentic self is the gut reaction of how they initially feel about something, and that they just are going with their gut. They're saying what first comes to them Right, because it feels like that's me, that's authentic. I'm not second guessing it because of another person, and for me sometimes, when I do that, that is when I feel inauthentic.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 1:Because for me, it's not so much about the other person. I am somebody who likes to think through and make sure that I am coming across the way that I intend to, so that I am wording, saying or doing something in the way that feels like me. And sometimes the immediate response is not that, and sometimes I am trying to get a specific reaction out of a person, but it's because my intention, my authentic intention, is to make them feel good or whatever it is, so I will take the time to word it in a way that I think will achieve your authentic intention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess that that will be received the best way, or, yeah, accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish in saying that, the best that I can, which I realize in some ways sounds like the opposite.
Speaker 3:No, I think that that goes along with what we're saying. I feel the same way as you because when you said initially, you know most people would think what's authentic is the first thing that comes to mind that isn't being influenced by other people In my gut, I was like no, that is not when I feel most authentic. I'm more like you in that when I have enough time to think deeply and ensure that what I'm saying resonates in my gut with what I truly think and believe, that's when I have that secure feeling, that feeling of peace, of like this is me, and it's often the opposite. That first thing that comes to mind that's more of the social cue and social thing that's been drilled into me, of like this would be an appropriate thing to say here, or this could make them laugh, or this could you know and it's more about the immediate oh, I got to do something that's going to have the response that's going to make them like me. That comes quickly to mind first.
Speaker 1:Hannah, what are your thoughts about the way that I conceptualize my own authenticity? I'm realizing that I've never actually heard somebody state it that way, so I'm looking to see if you have any thoughts or insights from just being around me all the time.
Speaker 2:I feel like what you're saying makes sense, because you tend to be someone who does take your time in speaking and process what you're saying before you say it. However, my question for you guys is do you feel like you can't be fully authentic in these quick moments with people? Because if you need this time to really spend time figuring out what you're going to say, how you're going to say it, who you're talking to, what about when you're having a conversation with someone at a supermarket, do you feel like you can't fully get to that level ever?
Speaker 3:Oh, totally Okay. That's how I feel. That's why I think I value deep conversations so much, because I hate hate's a strong word. I really feel uncomfortable in small talk conversations because it really does feel like I just go into social training mode, right, like I was taught to respond this way so that they'll walk away thinking oh, what a sweet lady you know and not like actually who I am.
Speaker 2:Right, which is interesting because there's been multiple situations in my life that I've met a complete stranger in a supermarket and I'm hearing their whole life story and I wonder if it's because I don't need that time to like go deep with someone. It is a little bit more of a quicker response for me.
Speaker 3:So, you mean like the other person is sharing deeply about themselves. So maybe they're like us and they don't feel like they can be authentic in a quicker formatted conversation.
Speaker 2:But they're in a supermarket when people say hello, how are you Move on? Get your shopping done? What I'm saying is Right.
Speaker 1:That's the socially intelligent thing to do.
Speaker 3:Right, but it feels so fake Because if you did, that to every single person, right?
Speaker 1:a lot of them are like I don't want to have this conversation, I know.
Speaker 3:That's why I hate when people say how are you? Because I never feel like I give a good response. I give the I'm good. How are you? Because that's what is expected, but that doesn't actually reflect what I'm experiencing.
Speaker 1:But the root of a lot of these things, of social pleasantries, of unconscious pleasant exchanges, comes from base psychology. It's the subcontext. It's not actually about the words. It's like often we're just looking for are you safe? Right, like I am having an interaction with you, are you friendly enough that I can feel safe? And then the other person just says something just friendly enough that you can feel safe. And then you're both like okay, good Language isn't always about the words that are said. It's more like oh, you're socially aware, you understand this situation, okay, we're good. And I think small talk often accomplishes a lot of subconscious things for people, more so than the actual words.
Speaker 2:Right, but what I was saying with the supermarket analogy is that everybody's small talk might look a little different and some people's small talk might get deeper, quicker than other small talk talk might get deeper, quicker than other small talk.
Speaker 1:I would say at that point it's not small talk, though I think you are making that person feel comfortable very quickly with your initial small talk. That lets them decide to not do small talk. Instead they decide to go deep. Yeah, I agree, you're going from small talk into a deep conversation, because you're making them feel safe very quickly.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:Right, but coming from you, guys are more processors than I am, so coming from that, you feel like you can't have those kinds of conversations with people because they go too fast.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say it depends. I very much had those types of situations, but it's a conscious choice as to whether I am putting myself in a place to be open to going deep with people. I think, from a processing standpoint, I don't always have to think about it. There are many times where the initial is worded the way that I want. So I think it's more like it goes through a quick little filter that checks if it is, and then I say it. It might be a slight pause, but sometimes it's a longer pause, you know.
Speaker 1:So I think there are probably times when it does inhibit me, but I think there are also times when I just consciously choose not to go down that hole and present myself in a way to not open that up. For instance, if I'm at a party and I run into somebody that I don't know, depending on whether I'm in a social state and feeling like going deep with people or not, I will either have a small talk interaction that doesn't go far or, if I'm consciously choosing to, it usually ends up going pretty deep, because I know how to take that small talk into something that they're interested in. That then goes deeper and then I start seeing passion and it becomes a much more interesting conversation. But there are times where I'm just not in the right state or feeling that, where I don't even attempt it.
Speaker 3:See, but that's where I think, putting myself in that context, if I'm at a party and somebody is trying to have a small talk conversation with me and they're not looking to go deep, it just feels inauthentic to me. So I typically would try to kind of walk away or avoid that sort of right, but you're also at a party.
Speaker 2:Not everybody wants to have a sob fest, no offense that sounds that sounds mean, but like no, everybody wants to have a very deep conversation at a party. Like take myself, if someone, if david, comes by and he can read me and he's like what's wrong, I'm not going to tell him. Then, like I'm just going to be like go away, like go be a party self, like I'm having I'm at a party. I don't want to discuss this right now.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Because it's the context at the place where we're at matters.
Speaker 3:But I think that's why when I go to a party, I usually don't go by myself and I'm usually there with somebody that I'm just like okay, none of these people have seen anything of the real me. And then I kind of gravitate more towards like even at family gatherings, like I end up gravitating more towards the family that I have closest relationships with and having more time and conversations with them, because that's where I feel authentic.
Speaker 1:And that makes sense. I feel like that is a very natural inclination and most people do that because it takes less energy to get to deep. But first off, I want to touch on the person in the grocery store. Sometimes that's really sweet. Other times I've said hi to somebody in an elevator and they start telling me about all of the issues in their life and I'm like ah, well, that's trauma dumping.
Speaker 2:Well, and the?
Speaker 1:social awareness. You know, yes, they're being, I guess, technically vulnerable, but really it's hardcore oversharing that makes everyone involved really uncomfortable and I think a lot of people have had those experiences with people that don't respect other people's social boundaries and it causes a lot of people to start with small talk.
Speaker 2:But what if they're being authentic to themselves?
Speaker 3:I think that's where the nuance here is tricky right, Because you have to find that balance of is it socially appropriate or not?
Speaker 1:So this is where I think authenticity isn't always a good thing. You have to weigh the balance of what are the repercussions, the effects of my authenticity? Are they harming someone else? Am I violating their boundaries? And I think it's easy to assume that being authentic is always the right choice, but it might not be.
Speaker 3:And I was even thinking too, like we're talking about authenticity as though it's this have to go deep, bear my soul, vulnerability, sure Sometimes, like I was just thinking about it at family gatherings. Sometimes authenticity is more like I understand the person's sense of humor. They have a similar one. We have shared history. It's more like fun and lighthearted, but it still has more depth than like hi, how are you, how are the kids, what's the? You know? Like it's, it has more depth. It has you know it's not just asking questions, it's telling stories, it's lighthearted things.
Speaker 1:But I think it's not fair to make the judgment of somebody that doesn't immediately go deep.
Speaker 2:Right, that's kind of what I was getting at, because everyone knows the sages love to get deep. It's something you guys are both very good at and I appreciate it immensely. But there are times that you guys are looking to go deep and I'm like I don't want to go deep, like please, I know, please, keep me from this today, like just not feeling it, and that's okay, and I'm still being authentic to myself by not wanting to go deep. So I don't want anyone to think because you don't go deep with people doesn't mean you're not being authentic. It comes across differently for different people.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and I actually want to double down on that with a couple other examples. So it might not even be that they're not feeling it. I brought up the example of the either trauma, dumping or oversharing because those experiences can be very, very awkward, taxing, very awkward, taxing. They can leave people really guarded in these new situations because they don't want to open that door enough that they're then stuck in that and I think that has caused people to be more guarded in their initial interactions with people. Because other people have stomped on their social boundaries or because of other times that they have been vulnerable, people have made fun of them, made them feel like crap when they were being vulnerable. They're exposed. Well, that causes people to be more guarded and not as ready to vulnerability when they've had past experiences that show that they aren't treated well. So sometimes we have to be careful about not judging somebody as not being willing to go deep. They might just be scared to go deep and maybe you have to start with something they're passionate about.
Speaker 2:Or maybe they don't need to go deep. They might have enough in their lives that they don't feel like they need to go deep with every single person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's fair too. I think, though, the difference is, I've never once questioned your authenticity. Even when I was first getting to know you and I think that's the part that I was trying to flesh out is, even if you don't want to go deep, because, like David said, you have had negative interactions and so you're afraid to, I feel like I can sense a little bit of that like fear, or a little bit of that. What would the word be? Trepidation or Sure?
Speaker 1:Right In the intention.
Speaker 3:That doesn't. Yeah, that doesn't offend me, that's okay. I'm very comfortable when I can sense somebody's a little bit you know nervous or fearful about, and that's why they're keeping it light. That's okay. It's more so in the context of when somebody is keeping it light and you can tell there's like I don't know how to put it to words. It's not necessarily malicious, but you can tell that they're like, have zero interest in actually talking to you. That's what bugs me.
Speaker 1:They're acting Like there is just clear being fake, where you can just see that they are putting on a face, a mask, and they are very clearly just doing this for show almost Sure.
Speaker 1:And that can Just doing this for show almost Right, and that can be very upsetting. But no matter who the person is, everyone is authentic sometimes, and I find that the most common time that you will find somebody being authentic is when they're talking about something that they're passionate about, because the energy just flows out of them and we see our passions, the things that we are interested in, as a part of ourselves, usually whether it be through a title like I am a reader, I am a teacher, whether it's your job or whether it's a hobby. I think we ascribe all of these labels that are often related to things that we like, like passions. But we're not that simple. There's a lot more to us than just those labels, but I think they are still sort of a part of our own self-concept. At our core, we are the consciousness that experiences our life, but in order to have a coherent sense of self, it's more than that. So I'd be curious to hear how the two of you think about who you are beyond just the consciousness. Who is Anna?
Speaker 3:It's a really hard question to answer in words right now. It feels like something I could ponder for hours and constantly adjust and adapt and have a very deep, abstract answer to.
Speaker 1:Does that answer play into how you think about whether you're being authentic?
Speaker 3:What Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:What are you?
Speaker 3:Hold on, let Hannah answer, because I'm in a mode of processing and thinking and I was just like huh, go ahead.
Speaker 2:So, as David said that, I kind of said uh-huh, because in my brain when he started thinking what makes you you, I only had one thing that came to mind. I've been working a lot in therapy with like affirmations and self-esteem and something that came to my mind was Hannah is loving. And so then, as soon as you said, does that perceive how you feel like you're being authentic in conversations with other people? Is it coming from a place of love? That's why I said yes, that's when I feel like I'm being authentic because Hannah is loving.
Speaker 3:That's a good answer. I think my issue is when I try to define who is Anna, I'm such an overthinker that the answer I give, I'm going to start then thinking about oh, but is that based on how other people have perceived me and labeled me my whole life, or is that actually how I feel about? You know what I mean A lot of. I feel like it's hard to give an answer without having the labels I've been given influence my answer of how I see myself. Does that make sense? Because I would probably say Anna is deep. I think that's the word. If I had to pick a word, I would say Anna is deep. I think that's the word. If I had to pick a word, I would say Anna is deep.
Speaker 3:Empathetic, I think, but that goes into it, though right Like I'm deeply telling you you're empathetic. Right, right, right, but no, but that's that's why I went with deep, because I'm deeply, I feel deeply, I'm deeply empathetic, I go deep in conversations. I'm deeply empathetic, I go deep in conversations. I, if I'm going to do a passion, I go deep into it Like I. I hardly ever do something, just a little bit Like, even in my work. I go 110% into most things and I think that's why I would define myself as deep.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting to hear that it get extrapolated down to one word for each of you.
Speaker 2:Well, how much time do we have? No, 100%. I don't mean it that way.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying. I think obviously you're both much more complicated than that, but for the sake of whether it rings true, it's easier to simplify it Because if you had to list out a whole paragraph every time you thought through it, it would be very hard to do in that moment. Gut feeling.
Speaker 3:I also think, as humans, we do a lot of thinking in terms of broader themes. Lot of thinking in terms of broader themes, and maybe that's why both Hannah and I went towards a word or a statement that encapsulates who we are, because we're drawn to like what's the big idea, the main idea, the theme here, and that's easier to put into words than like tell me all of who you are.
Speaker 1:For sure. What I wanted to touch on, or at least like ask and float, was how values play into it. If you were to boil it down, we all have different values. What is most important to you in our life, most important to you in our life and you might be able to create a top 10 major values behind your ethics, your morality, who you believe you are as a person, in an attempt to be a good person. Right, if you were to really really drill those down, though, to a top two or a top three? Drill those down, though, to a top two or a top three, would you say that if you could find those top two or three values, that most things would ring true to whether you were being authentic to those values?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I definitely think my authenticity is tied to my values. I think even the word that I'm living my life, or striving to live my life, doing all things through a lens of having deep gratitude or deep love for what I'm doing and the people around me, all of those things have depth to me, so they directly tie to my values. And when I'm living into my values eloquent with her words, whereas I am not so much- so I agree, however, with my word being loving.
Speaker 2:I definitely think that I equate that to how I perceive myself as being authentic, because my love language is acts of service. So that's one way I show love right away. It's a big part of me, but also I'm a caretaker. I like to take care of people. I love to take care of people, critters, bugs, animals, nature. So, yeah, love is my number one encompassing value currently.
Speaker 1:I think if I were to spend some time I could come up with some more and, just to be clear, I don't expect you guys to have that like just in the chamber.
Speaker 1:It's actually something I've been doing a lot of thinking about recently and we'll probably do a future episode actually fully about values. We talked about a lot of things today, ranging from how to gauge somebody's authenticity, whether that authenticity or inauthenticity is a bad thing or a good thing, how it depends on the situation quite a bit. We had a whole conversation about if discerning whether somebody is being authentic or not is fully beneficial or sometimes unhelpful, since a lot of assumptions are made from only our own state and story. We talked about how one of the most important things we can do when it comes to authenticity is get a better understanding of our own authenticity, and we even covered a number of different ways of assessing how one would determine if they are being authentic. It was very interesting because we really had three different approaches that bled into each other. Finally, we finished with some questions about who we are as people and how we see ourselves in our self-image, beyond just being the consciousness that experiences our life.
Speaker 2:My biggest takeaway from today's conversation is that authenticity may look different for different people and they may not show it in the same ways.
Speaker 3:I agree. Similar to you, hannah, my biggest takeaway or biggest realization was when I'm trying to decide if someone is being authentic or inauthentic. Sometimes it has more to do with me and less to do with them. And I also need to understand that, although I value depth, that doesn't mean everybody else thinks the same way as I do, and it's important for me to give similar weight to what's appropriate in a given context that I do to the weight of the conversation itself.
Speaker 1:I think my biggest takeaway was hearing about the different ways that we all determine whether we were feeling like we were coming off authentic. I think it's a topic that I really haven't thought that much about, and I wasn't expecting the approaches or the factors that caused us to feel authentic or inauthentic to be so different, while still sharing some core underlying strands. I guess this curiosity conversation is a new format for us, so if you have any thoughts, whether it be your biggest takeaways or any feedback that you have surrounding it, please feel free to let us know. We're always open to feedback and remember you are enough and you deserve to fill up your inner cup with happiness, confidence and self-compassion.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Sage Solutions Podcast. Your time is valuable and I'm so glad you choose to learn and grow here with me. We'd love to hear your feedback, so click the link in the description and let us know what you think. If you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on more sage advice. One last thing the legal language. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. No coaching client relationship is formed. It is not intended as a substitute for the personalized advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.