Sage Solutions
Advice and insight about personal growth, personal development, and becoming your best self.
Sage Solutions
Avoiding Avoidance
Fear striking right as you're about to send that important email? That lunch invitation sitting in your drafts for days? You're not alone. We all avoid things that make us uncomfortable, but what if that avoidance is precisely what's keeping you from the life you truly want?
Join David and Hannah Sage as they dive deep into the psychology of avoidance – that sneaky habit of sidestepping discomfort, anxiety, or fear. Drawing from the groundbreaking work of Dr. Luana Marques, Harvard Medical School professor and anxiety expert, this episode reveals the paradoxical truth: the more we avoid what makes us anxious, the bigger that anxiety grows.
The science is fascinating but also empowering. Your brain creates a feedback loop where momentary relief from avoiding something reinforces both the anxiety and the avoidance itself. But there's a way out. Through Dr. Marques' three-step Bold Move framework – Detect, Disrupt, and Reframe to take action – you'll learn how to recognize your avoidance patterns, challenge unhelpful thoughts, and take meaningful steps toward what matters most to you.
We share practical techniques like the 5-Second Rule for immediate action, the 2-Minute Rule for quick tasks, and the powerful perspective shift of reframing physical sensations of nervousness as excitement (they're physiologically identical!). Most importantly, you'll discover that courage isn't about eliminating fear but about feeling it and moving forward anyway.
Whether you're avoiding career advancement, difficult conversations, or personal challenges, this episode offers science-backed strategies to break free from the avoidance cycle and start living boldly. As Dr. Marques wisely says, "Be the water, not the rock." Subscribe now and share this episode with someone who needs to hear this message – together, we can turn avoidance into action.
We would love to hear your feedback! Click here to tell us what you think.
https://sagesolutions.buzzsprout.com
If you are interested in one-on-one coaching, email us at:
sagecoachingsolutions@gmail.com
**Legal Disclaimer**
The Sage Solutions Podcast and content posted by David Sage is presented solely for general informational, educational, and entertainment purposes. No coaching client relationship is formed by listening to this podcast. No Legal, Medical or Financial advice is being given. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast or website is at the user's own risk. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice, diagnosis, or treatment of a psychotherapist, physician, professional coach, Lawyer or other qualified professional. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical or mental health condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. The opinions of guests are their own and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the podcast.
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk about all things personal growth, personal development and becoming your best self. My name is David Sage and I'm a self-worth and confidence coach with Sage Coaching Solutions.
Speaker 2:Hey guys, hannah Sage here David's wife coaching solutions.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, hannah Sage here, david's wife Hannah, is also one of our reoccurring co-hosts and will be joining me for today's topic. Today, we're tackling a challenge that every single one of us faces at some point Avoidance, that sneaky habit of sidestepping things, Things that make us uncomfortable, anxious or even a little bit scared. It might feel like a safe strategy in the moment, but what if it's actually the main thing holding us back from the life we truly want? We're going to dive into the science behind why we avoid it and, more importantly, we'll be unlocking some powerful, actionable strategies to help us stop avoiding and start living Before we get into it. Our goal with this podcast is to share free, helpful tools with you and anyone you know who is looking to improve their life so don't avoid it. Their life, so don't avoid it. Take action, subscribe and share this podcast with them.
Speaker 2:I'm excited about this topic today because it's something that everyone, including myself, deals with on a day-to-day basis, and I think a lot of times the cause for avoidance is a little bit deeper. It doesn't mean that you're incompetent or lazy. I think there's some underlying roots to avoidance and I'm excited to dig a little deeper.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly what we're planning on doing. But to guide us, we'll be focusing on the incredible insights and methods of Dr Luana Marquis, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School and an expert in helping people overcome anxiety and avoidance. Her work is all about making bold moves and by the end of this episode, we'll have some real down-to-earth steps that we can all start using immediately. So what exactly is avoidance?
Speaker 2:The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines avoidance as an act or practice of avoiding or withdrawing from something.
Speaker 1:I want to make a small distinction here. In many different situations procrastination and avoidance can be basically the same thing, but avoidance is a little bit broader than procrastination. Procrastination, at least in intent, is the delaying of something with the intent to still do it later, but to just put it off for now or avoid it for now. Procrastination is like a type of avoidance, but avoidance as a broader category or a bigger topic can include avoiding something altogether, deciding that something is too painful, too uncomfortable, too scary or too complicated to even attempt. So I'm just going to avoid it going to avoid it.
Speaker 2:So earlier today, when we were joking around about avoiding recording the avoidance podcast, we were actually just procrastinating recording the avoidance podcast.
Speaker 1:Which is still a type of avoidance.
Speaker 2:But here we are.
Speaker 1:And avoidance also has many other contexts and it's often used to describe like the avoidant attachment style or an avoidant personality type. That's not really what we're talking about here today. This is where I'm trying to suss out some of the shades of gray ahead of time so that I avoid some confusion.
Speaker 2:But I also think it's important to note that there are some emotional mental behaviors that kind of go hand in hand with avoidance.
Speaker 1:And we will be thoroughly diving into those. But first I really want to start with what exactly is avoidance in the context of personal development? It's more than just putting off your chores, though that can be a form of it too. Like we just said, at its core, avoidance is a behavior pattern aimed at preventing or escaping unpleasant thoughts, feelings, sensations or situations. It's that internal alarm system screaming danger, discomfort, ahead, retreat. But why do we do it? Well, our brains are wired for survival. If you haven't heard me say this in a previous episode, you're going to keep hearing me say this.
Speaker 2:And again, and again, and again.
Speaker 1:Because it's not going to change. Our brains are wired for survival because, if they weren't, we wouldn't exist. They had to be in order for us to survive, to get to this cushy world that we live in today.
Speaker 2:Throwback to an earlier episode where I probably slightly enraged Anna and David with saying we needed it to run away from the dinosaurs.
Speaker 1:Hey, it was a great visual example.
Speaker 2:Dinosaurs and humans weren't really around at the same time.
Speaker 1:You knew that too. You were just doing hyperbole in the moment. Historically, avoiding threats kept us alive, but these modern day threats are often much more psychological than objectively real the fear of failure, the fear of rejection of judgment, or simply the discomfort of uncertainty. When we're faced with a task that triggers these feelings, like a tough conversation, applying for a new job or even going to a social event, that old part of our brain kicks in and says nope, let's scroll through social media instead.
Speaker 2:Because in the moment it feels good to kind of avoid that conflict. I'm trying not to use the word avoid much, but it's hard to not use the word avoid when we're talking about avoidance.
Speaker 1:Who would have thought?
Speaker 2:But anyways, it feels good in the moment to distract ourselves from facing that obstacle or what we think is a big thing, and a lot of times it's not nearly as scary as we've made it out to be in our brains.
Speaker 1:Right, because our thoughts, while they can be objective, are often much more subjective than reality, and that means our fears and the way that we build them up in our head can also be subjective. They are directly changed or influenced by our perspective of reality, and that also means that they can be reframed to be better or worse than the situation actually is.
Speaker 2:And the longer we put it off, the bigger it becomes.
Speaker 1:Oh, now you're getting into the meat and potatoes of where this is going, but before we get too ahead of ourselves. At its core, avoidance is your brain's attempt to prevent discomfort, and the science here is fascinating, though a bit paradoxical. When we avoid something that makes us anxious, we get immediate relief Ah, crisis averted. But here's the catch that minor immediate relief reinforces the anxiety and reinforces the avoidance. The anxiety and reinforces the avoidance. See, anxiety often makes people want to avoid whatever is causing their anxiety. But the kicker is that there's a negative feedback loop.
Speaker 1:Avoidance is one of the biggest drivers of anxiety. When you're avoiding the thing that gives you anxiety, you are removing yourself further from that thing, which allows your brain to build it up to be a bigger deal than it is because you're further removed from it. You've also subconsciously reinforced that the thing must have been bad because that's why you avoided it. Must have been bad because it's why you avoided it. And the more times you avoid what makes you anxious, the bigger the threat your brain builds it up to be. And subconsciously you reaffirm that the reason that you avoided it was because it was a big threat.
Speaker 2:Breeding anxiety, insecurities and self-doubt.
Speaker 1:And this cycle keeps continuing over and over, as your anxiety around it builds and builds and your avoidance keeps happening until it can even cause, at its extreme, crippling disorders like agoraphobia or the fear of leaving your house, as well as other phobias. As research in cognitive behavioral psychology consistently shows, by avoiding the feared situation, we never learn that we can cope with it, or that the catastrophic outcome we imagine probably won't happen, or that the catastrophic outcome we imagine probably won't happen. In fact, studies like those exploring the generalization of fear suggest that relentless avoidance can make our fears bigger and even spread to other, unrelated areas of our lives. We essentially teach our brain that the only way to handle discomfort is to run from it, but, as we'll learn, there's a much more empowering way. This brings us to Dr Marquise.
Speaker 1:She's a leading voice in this field. As an associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, president of the Anxiety and Depression Association of America and author of the book Bold Move a three-step plan to transform anxiety into power, she's dedicated her career to understanding and treating anxiety and avoidance. Her core philosophy is refreshingly direct. She emphasizes that, while life inevitably brings challenges and discomfort, it's our avoidance of this discomfort that truly limits us. I love this quote from her Avoidance is the enemy. Be the water, not the rock. Flow past the obstacles you face and never stop moving towards your values.
Speaker 2:I love that. I feel like that kind of paints a picture in my head that I could actually pull up when I'm debating. Being a rock Kind of forces me to flow with the water, and it just shows how easily a mental shift can change your perspective.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. Be the water. I couldn't agree more. Be the water, not the rock. Let's just think about that for a moment. It's the flexibility, resilience and forward movement, even when things are tough. Her approach isn't about eliminating fear or anxiety altogether, because, let's face it, those are human emotions. They're not going anywhere. Instead, it's about changing our relationship with those feelings so they no longer call the shots. It's about learning to make what she calls bold moves, actions aligned with what truly matters to us, even when it feels hard. Now, discomfort can come in a number of different forms. There's just basic discomfort, where you might want to avoid doing something just because you think it's going to be hard or tedious or annoying or take a lot of effort, or you don't feel like it in the moment. Then there's more emotion-driven discomfort, like feeling anxiety, or getting to a place of overwhelm, or maybe feeling fear. These emotional states can cause a level of discomfort that makes you want to avoid it, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:We've actually covered those three exact topics in previous episodes overcoming overwhelm, facing fear with courage and handling anxiety. So if you haven't heard those episodes, I highly encourage you to go back, find those episodes and give them a listen. It'll be well worth it.
Speaker 1:And while we're bringing that up, I want to touch on the fact that Dr Marquis talks about being bold, as facing fear and overcoming challenges We've talked about this in a couple different episodes, like the episode on courage. Facing fear, feeling the fear and doing it anyways is being courageous, on letting obstacles motivate you with stoicism and cultivating intrinsic motivation by reframing the way that we think about effort and challenge, turning effort into energy.
Speaker 2:Which was our most recent episode.
Speaker 1:That it was Getting back to our types of discomfort. We have our third one. A little less talked about would be the discomfort of uncertainty, of how, of complexity. As Tony Robbins says, complexity is the enemy of execution. He also says never let the tyranny of how stop you from taking action.
Speaker 2:So you mean I don't need a 12-step plan to get to the grocery store? I hate grocery shopping, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I do most of the grocery shopping. And, to answer your question, no, you don't need a 12-step plan to go to the grocery store. Most things don't need a 12-step plan. Period, kiss, k-i-s. Keep it simple, small, simple steps, one at a time. Don't overcomplicate it. Paralysis by analysis is basically avoiding taking action, because the discomfort of how or how to do it perfect is enough to stop you from taking action, which is why action equals success and outcomes are just learning. There's no point in figuring out how to do it if it's going to stop you from doing it.
Speaker 2:So how do we learn how to be water and not the rock?
Speaker 1:Well, in order to actually do this, dr Marquis offers a very practical, science-backed framework Before we dive into the specific three steps for making these bold moves. Making these bold moves, it's helpful to understand a concept. She often talks about the T-E-B cycle that stands for thoughts, emotions and behaviors. So imagine this you have a thought. If I speak up in this meeting, I'll probably say something stupid and embarrass myself. That thought then triggers an emotion, anxiety, maybe a knot in your stomach, a racing heart, and that emotion then drives our behavior. You stay silent, avoid eye contact, continue to feel anxious and maybe even skip the meeting if you can. That's avoidance in action, fueled by the thought and the emotion.
Speaker 1:The TEB cycle shows how these three elements are constantly interacting and influencing each other, often keeping us stuck in unhelpful patterns. The good news is, by understanding this cycle, we can find points to intervene, and that's where her three-step bold move framework comes in. So if our thoughts often create our emotions and then our emotions lead to our behaviors T-E-B and in this case avoidance is the behavior that we're trying to change then a different set of thoughts that lead to a different set of emotions could lead to a different behavior like taking action. So her three-step process goes like this Detect, disrupt and reframe to take action.
Speaker 2:Whoa hold on there, buddy, Can you repeat those three for me?
Speaker 1:What am I? A horse.
Speaker 2:But in all seriousness, can we repeat those three things just in case anybody's trying to write something down or to really hit it home?
Speaker 1:Detect, disrupt and reframe to take action. Step one detect. This first step is all about awareness. You can't change what you don't acknowledge. Recognize your avoidance patterns. How does avoidance show up for you? Is it procrastination on important tasks, avoiding social situations, numbing out with TV or scrolling on social media? Maybe it's subtler, like constantly seeking reassurance or over-preparing to an extreme degree to avoid any chance of failure or to not start in the first place? Start to notice these patterns without judgment. Just observe. Identify the thinking traps. What are the specific thoughts that trigger your avoidance?
Speaker 1:She draws from cognitive behavioral therapy to highlight common traps like catastrophizing If I try this, it will be a complete disaster. All or nothing thinking If I can't do it perfectly, there's no point in doing it at all. Mind reading Everyone will think I'm incompetent. And we've actually talked about cures for all three of these thought patterns as well. We have a whole episode on catastrophizing. As far as all or nothing thinking handling, that is one of my core fundamentals Thinking in shades of gray or the longer version, lifelong learning in shades of gray and the longer version. Lifelong learning in shades of gray and mind reading is really just making assumptions or telling yourself stories about how others feel instead of actually knowing.
Speaker 2:I've been guilty of every single one of those at different points in life.
Speaker 1:And who hasn't, I sure as hell have?
Speaker 2:I tend to be a bit of an extremist when it comes to things, and then that translates into black or white, very all or nothing thinking. That comes the most natural to me and my personality, unfortunately. So that's something that I've had to work hard at is maintaining thinking in shades of gray. Work hard at is maintaining thinking in shades of gray. Speaking of shades of gray, my relationship with this topic isn't so black and white.
Speaker 2:As you guys know, I've discussed in past episodes about how I struggle with anxiety, and I've also talked about how I'm pretty good at taking action and getting things done when they need to be done, but I'm also fairly good at avoiding getting something done because of my anxiety.
Speaker 2:It's a weird extreme between the two Because on one hand, yes, I'm getting things done, but on the other hand, sometimes I just want to hide in a hole. It generally depends on the topic and if it's a situation that I already feel insecure in. So, like I would say, when David and I first started dating, I was pretty insecure on the way that I handled my finances, so I avoided talking about looking at figuring out how my finances could be better. That was until I had the help from David, who separated that insecurity for me and made me realize that it's not something to be insecure about, just something to improve and work through. On the other hand, when it comes to manual labor, such as yard work, cooking, cleaning, building something, putting together Ikea furniture, I'm all in and I'll get it done very quickly.
Speaker 1:Like shockingly quickly and efficiently and almost annoyingly good.
Speaker 2:I'm very aggressive about the things I like to do, but the things that I feel uncomfortable in or insecure about, my natural tendency, at least when anxiety is involved, is to avoid doing that thing.
Speaker 1:This is a really good example because it shows how we as human beings are complex. We are shades of gray, we are not just good at one thing and just bad at another thing. Many different parts of our personality and situation and feelings and emotions all play together to form who we are and the actions that we take or the thoughts that we have in any given situation. But to get back to the first step of her detect, disrupt and reframe to take action. When we are detecting, we are simply naming these thoughts as thinking traps and when we do so, it can start to loosen their grip. Dr Marquis wisely says your thoughts are real. It Dr Marquis wisely says your thoughts are real. But that doesn't mean that they're true. Let's take an example. Say you avoid a networking event, detecting the pattern you notice, you always find an excuse not to go. Or if you do go, you hover by the food table and leave early, doing little to no actual networking. Detecting these thinking traps. Your underlying thoughts might be I'm awkward, I'll have nothing to say, no one will want to talk to me, I'll just embarrass myself. So that's where we move into step two disrupt. Once you've detected the avoidance and the thoughts fueling it. The next step is to create a pause and challenge the automatic pilot. Challenge those unhelpful thoughts. Become your own thought lawyer. Ask yourself is this thought 100% true? Where's the evidence for it? Where's the evidence against it? What's a more balanced shades of gray or realistic way of looking at this? What would I tell a friend who had this thought? We're taking control of our perspective of reality by utilizing some of the most important things that are in our locus of control our thoughts and our perspectives.
Speaker 1:Next, we connect with our core values. These are what are most important to us. What are the most important values in your life? If you had to boil it down to a top five, a top three, what are the values that you live your life by? This is crucial. She emphasizes that bold moves are values-driven. Ask yourself what truly matters to me in my career, in my relationships, for my personal growth, for who I am and for my morality. Example, if you value connection, growth or contribution in your career, how is avoiding networking events getting in the way of those values? Focusing on your values gives you a why that can be stronger than your fear. It shifts the motivation from I have to do this scary thing to. I choose to do this because it aligns with what's important to me.
Speaker 2:Like becoming a doer.
Speaker 1:So to get back to this networking example, the disrupting thought. Okay, I might feel awkward initially, that's true, but have I always had nothing to say? Are there times I've had good conversations? Maybe not everyone will want to talk to me, I've had good conversations. Maybe not everyone will want to talk to me, but perhaps some people will. Connecting to the values I value, professional growth and building connections. This event, while uncomfortable, is an opportunity to move towards those values.
Speaker 1:Step three reframe and take action. This is where the rubber meets the road. It's about shifting your perspective and taking these courageous steps. Reframe your discomfort. Instead of seeing anxiety or discomfort as a red light, try to see it as a green light for growth. It often means you're stretching yourself, you're on the edge of your comfort zone, and that's where learning, growth and progress happen.
Speaker 1:Take small, manageable, values-aligned actions. This isn't about suddenly becoming fearless. In fact, it's not about becoming fearless at all. It's about having courage and diving into the deep end. It's about taking one step then another. What's a small, bold move you can make? The emphasis is on action, not waiting until you feel perfectly confident or unafraid. In fact, often the confidence comes after the action. To round out our networking example, reframe and take action. Feeling anxious is just a sign I'm stepping out of my comfort zone, which is good for my growth. My bold move today won't be to become the life of the party. It will be to go to the event for 30 minutes and aim to ask one person an open-ended question about their work. That's it A small, simple, concrete, values-driven step. By repeatedly moving through this cycle detect, disrupt and reframe to act you begin to retrain your brain. You show yourself that you can tolerate discomfort, that the feared outcomes are often less intense than you imagined and that you are capable of moving towards what matters to you it reminds me of something that you've said.
Speaker 2:I believe in the podcast, but you say it a lot of times, even at home.
Speaker 1:You talk about oh boy, which one is it?
Speaker 2:You talk about how the feelings of nervousness and excitement are very similar. It's very similar head rush similar to how your heart beats faster sweaty palms similar to how your heart beats faster sweaty palms. So if you can tap into and try to shift the focus of fear and nervousness into excitement, I think that could be a very powerful tool to use as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. They are so similar that they're physiologically identical. The major difference is just the way that your brain interprets that sensation as a positive thing or a negative thing.
Speaker 2:Which simplifies it in a way and makes it less scary. If you think of it as wow, I'm excited, it's the same feeling.
Speaker 1:And, to be honest, it's often sort of a combination, because, thinking about it as a switch right Like you're either nervous or excited. Oftentimes we're interpreting it in a way that's sort of a mix of both. Before we get too off track, let's quickly recap Dr Marquis's approach to overcoming avoidance with some actionable takeaways that you can start to implement today. Become a detective. Start noticing your avoidance patterns. Self-awareness is one of the biggest keys to personal growth. What situations, thoughts or feelings do you tend to sidestep? What are the go-to thinking traps that your mind lays for you? Just observe, notice and use some curiosity like a scientist. Understand your TEB cycle. Remember your thoughts, create your emotions and often your emotions then dictate your behaviors. See how they connect for you. Embrace her bold move framework by detecting. See the avoidance and the thoughts disrupting. Challenge those thoughts and, crucially, connect with your values what's truly important that avoidance is blocking and then reframe to act. Reframe that discomfort as a sign of growth and take one small, manageable step that is aligned with your values. Start small and be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1:This isn't about overnight transformation. It's going to require some grace, some self-compassion. It's about consistent, small, simple steps. There will be times where you slip back into old patterns, that's okay. Treat yourself with compassion, learn from it and gently guide yourself back to your values and your next bold move. And when you get to the action portion of this, after you've detected the thoughts or emotions that are preventing you from doing the behavior that you want, or causing the avoidance basically what's making you want to avoid something and disrupted those thoughts or emotions by questioning them, changing your state and realizing how avoiding this situation takes you away from your core values, what's really important to you, we then get to reframe and take action. We reframe this as something that's important for our values, for our life and for our growth, but we still have to take action.
Speaker 2:That reminds me of the exercise that we did in a recent seminar of Tony Robbins, where he put you into a state where you're envisioning how you feel after you've taken that action and then you're honestly not even thinking about the fear of doing it. You're just so excited to get to the point where you've actually already done it and it distracts you from the fear of it. So to try to put yourself into that headspace of wow, I finally did it, thinking how good you're going to feel when you've finally gotten that monkey off your back, I think is a really powerful, is a very powerful tool in using perspective shift.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it changes your perspective, but it also shifts your emotional and physical state your perspective, but it also shifts your emotional and physical state.
Speaker 2:We also have a technique that we've talked about in that action episode and that's from Mel Robbins, called the five-second rule. It's basically a situation if you're finding yourself putting off doing an action, count in your mind or out loud five, four, three, two, one, blast off and go do that action. Don't even give yourself a moment to think about it.
Speaker 1:We also have scheduling things that you want to get done and boxing your time. This means by scheduling it or putting it into a specific time frame and boxing out, this time we're taking advantage of Parkinson's law. Parkinson's law states a task will expand to fill the amount of time that you give it. So by giving it a set time frame and boxing your time, you're taking advantage of Parkinson's law to compress that task into that time. You are taking advantage of Parkinson's law to compress that task into that time.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of time-related ones, but I think that's for all good reason, because usually you spend two hours procrastinating something that potentially you could do in two minutes, which brings us to the two-minute tool. Instead of wasting all that time thinking about it and putting off that thing that you need to do, ask yourself can I accomplish this task in two minutes or less? If yes, do it.
Speaker 1:Because, frankly, it's not going to take you very long. It literally has a maximum time frame.
Speaker 2:Right. What I would put in that category is scheduling an appointment, paying a bill especially if it can be done online or sending a text message. All things that can be done potentially within two minutes.
Speaker 1:you've taken that action towards doing something you want to avoid, something that's uncomfortable. Reframe your mindset around it during. Let's take advantage of that intrinsic motivation by getting back to our default state and rewiring our brains to embrace the challenge, embrace the effort and telling ourselves that we like a challenge, that we like to be pushed, that we like to strive, because doing this repeatedly literally rewires our dopamine system to give us motivation to do hard things, making it that much easier to not avoid them in the first place.
Speaker 2:The core message here is one of empowerment, boldness, as Dr Marquise teaches. It is really about courage. It isn't about the absence of fear. It's about feeling the fear, acknowledging the discomfort and choosing to act in line with your deepest values. Anyways.
Speaker 1:I hope this discussion on avoidance and Dr Marquis' strategies has given you some fresh perspectives and, most importantly, some realistic tools to start making changes. Remember every small step towards facing what you fear is a victory. Action equals success. Be the water, not the rock, and remember you are enough and you deserve to fill up your inner cup with happiness. And you deserve to fill up your inner cup with happiness, confidence and self-compassion. Thank you for listening to the Sage Solutions Podcast. Your time is valuable and I'm so glad you choose to learn and grow here with me. We'd love to hear your feedback, so click the link in the description and let us know what you think. If you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on more sage advice. One last thing the legal language. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. No coaching client relationship is formed. It is not intended as a substitute for the personalized advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.